December 22, 2008
Rinsing My Bad Taste for FriendFeed
Filed under : FriendFeed
I love FriendFeed do not get me wrong. I mean it is the premier life-streaming service. I have tried others and found them all lacking. FriendFeed is a great place of news, research, and generally friendly smart ideas.
But, over the last few months I found myself participating less and less. The bad taste I gained for FriendFeed still lingers. These negative feelings arose in the weeks preceding election day.
FriendFeed was not friendly. It was totally pro one candidate. Dissenting opinions were not only frowned upon but some users were verbally abused by the herd.
The abuse was even supported by members of the frienderati pushing their political views.
You know how when you see celebrities on television at some awards show being very political just because they can. These celebrities have no more intelligence or insight than you or I. The person with the spotlight simply pushes their own agenda or beliefs.
The Frienderati acted in the same way. They decided that since they were popular they would use FriendFeed as a platform to push personal political views at the expense of whoever disagreed.
That practice is not Friendly. That I believe is blatant abuse of the service.
Look just because you are popular does not make you God’s gift to politics or God himself. Opinions as we know are like arm pits, we all have them and they all stink.
I will not name the Frienderati members fearing backlash. I do not wish to start a meme.
I have been back on FriendFeed post election from time to time. But, unfortunately the bad taste is lingering. Every social network ever formed has changed over time. The bloom goes off the proverbial rose eventually.
FriendFeed is a great product used by many friendly smart people. The bad apples made this user take a step back.
The purpose of this post is to clear the air. To rinse the bad feelings away. I have been back to FriendFeed lately and find it relevant, fun, and just as lighthearted as I remembered.
FriendFeed is again the friendly place for news and information. I will just remember to take off around August of an election year and return in December.
Merry Christmas and see you on FriendFeed!
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On FriendFeed, this post was liked by 25 people and commented on 49 times hideLiked by
- Jens Christian Freund,
- Shey, Jamaican of FF,
- Hutch Carpenter,
- Mike Fruchter,
- tomit,
- Igor Poltavskiy,
- Mike Elliott,
- Mathew A. Koeneker,
- Mark Krynsky,
- Bill Sodeman,
- Julia,
- Nikpay,
- Kevin Whalen,
- KyNam Doan,
- Louis Gray,
- Tyson Key,
- MikeAmundsen,
- Andrew,
- AJ Kohn,
- Chris Rogers,
- Thomas Bøhm,
- Nine,
- Susan Beebe,
- David Knight,
- Robert Scoble
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Yes, he's talking partly about me because I was one of the "mob" who supported Obama. Personally, I won't apologize one bit for doing that.
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Oooh no, I remember all this now...gees. That was an eternity ago...
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I do not want apologies for opinions. Support who you want. Say what you want. But can we not be civil. Can we agree that all voices deserve to be heard?
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There was a time where civility did not rule here. The dissenting opinion was loudly squashed.
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Franklin: there was a lot of idiocy I saw. Sorry, idiocy does NOT deserve to be heard. But, here's the deal: FriendFeed is totally decentralized. No one can delete your posts from here. So, if your voice was not getting listened to, maybe it was YOUR problem, not ours. Get more of your friends in here that believe in what you believe. That's the answer.
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If you don't like my beliefs, there are plenty of ways in FriendFeed to get rid of me from your view so that your ideas can find space. You could have blocked me, and other people who treated you rudely (I blocked a few back then who were idiotic and I have not unblocked them yet because). There are lots of methods to avoid getting mad in FriendFeed.
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So make my mob bigger than yours? That is stupid. That is not the answer. The answer is for people to respect each other. The answer is for each person to step back and look for common ground. Things are not so black and white. The reason this community has worked is the decentralized free but friendly format.
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The one-sided worshipfulness coupled with the complete lack of respect for McCain and anyone that might vote for him was certainly enough to leave a bad taste in my mouth. I don't remember Scoble bothering me too much but I made heavy use of block for the first time w/ Dave Winer leading the pack
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Franklin: sorry, I won't respect people who are anti-gay rights. Who say stupid stuff about Obama. Lots of stupid stuff was said here and all over. Lots of racist stupid idea. I'm not going to apologize for harshly stepping on such lame ideas. If your ideas are good, they will spread and get the light of day. It's not about size of mob. If you don't like the mob in my corner of FriendFeed it's very easy to shut us off and get rid of us out of your view.
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Here's a datapoint: there are thousands of Farsi speakers here. How many do you see? None. Why is that? Because they've built their own little community here and I don't get mad at them because I can't read their posts. If they leak into my world I unfollow. It's very easy to get rid of assholes here, including me. But blaming assholes for making YOU mad demonstrates you have a problem, not me. :-)
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Geez, everybody gets so emotional, but if someone was being hateful, you block them. That's how this works. You think you're going to fix people within this space? Don't stress yourself :)
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Rahsheen: exactly.
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Come on - you won't respect someone for one political view? I'm anti-death penalty and pro-life. Who would I have to vote for if I narrowed my view that much?
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Robert: Your points are well taken. Each user can define their own experience. You are a power prominent user. You can have a great influence on the mob. More than I think you realize. A small amount of diplomacy can go along way. Things just got out of hand. It certainly was not your fault. It was no one users fault. But it was unpleasant and very unfriendly regardless of your views.
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Friendfeed is like having an open conversation at a coffee shop. You're bound to encounter a wide range of views. Many views could be different than yours. So, the logical approach is to engage in conversation where it makes sense, you can express your ideas, be heard, listen to others, consider their views, grow and learn; collaborate and develop solutions to life's problems. Don't whine about someone else not agreeing with you. Everyone has a different view, that's life...deal with it.
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David: I don't have to respect everyone here. Sorry. That's not how this works. And I'm not going to apologize for being particularly harsh on people who want to get involved in other people's lives. My grandma lived through Nazi Germany and, yes, there are times when one issue alone is enough to make me call you an idiot.
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hmmm. I tend to enjoy conversations where I disagree with the point, but I'm working on a degree in law (not a jd, that's for later, when I have a bit more of my own money). In the end it gets me closer to understanding what the heck the other side believes and why. Some of my best friends are people who are on the far end of the spectrum (with a few exceptions). What Scoble is saying is, If you can't take the heat, remodel your kitchen.
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Why do we expect FriendFeed to be any different from the 'real world'? People get passionate about politics and things devolve. That's just how it is. And it's that way on *both* sides of the spectrum. FF is great because of the Hide and Block features. At the end of the day you're not required to wade into those conversations, so if you have thin skin, avoid them.
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@AJ I think Franklin was expecting a higher standard from Scoble - but Scoble went all Charles Barkley on that
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@David: LOL. Yeah, Scoble is a person just like the rest of us and he gets passionate about a lot of things and doesn't have much patience for what he feels is an illogical position. Hey, at least Scoble isn't spitting on little girls ;)
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And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I would have differed with Nazi doctrine on more than one issue.
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Franklin needs to mingle around the coffee shop some more...that's all. Get more involved with different subscribers that you want to be with online. Conduct searches for keywords, research people, get to know them, develop your own online circle of friends - this doesn't happen naturally for you...you must cultivate / maintain your online circles to achieve the highest level of reward for you and your friends
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you have to take the bad with the good i guess. i follow robert scoble because i enjoy his work, but i had to live with all his political discussions too which i hated. this applies to all the other amazing people i follow on friendfeed. love their work, hate their political talk.
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My sister said something very wise to me that will stick with me forever: "You can't fix stupid"
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it's one thing to be upset about the *politics* of FF participants, it's another thing to be upset about their *treatment of others.*
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@MikeAmundsen: Some of us can respect the dissenting opinion to a point no matter how idiotic. The mob was out of hand and I am not the only one with this opinion. I am not pinning blame on anyone. Scoble was not singled out. Others were far worse than Scoble. Far worse. I am just saying how I felt and asking for a little decorum. I understand how polarizing politics is for any group. There is common ground that could have been found. Yes, and ultimately there are idiot opinions in every group.
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@Franklin: i think we agree then, right? mobs suck, no matter the persuasion. abuse is uncalled for. the ends do not justify the means. Voltaire and all, right?
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Bwana +1000!
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@Mike: Yes abuse it is not necessary. @Bwana: You are correct. You can not fix stupid. However the abusers are not stupid. They are the intelligent that could have risen above abuse.
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@Franklin: BTW, good to have you back.
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BTW Franklin, I left FF during this time period because I was doing more avoiding than anything else. I agree that it got out of hand, and there were many that agreed with me. Given the chance, you can bet they'll do it again Franklin, and no matter the intelligence level, everyone has their moments of stupidity.
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@Bwana: LOL I could not have said it better. We are all stupid from time to time. :)
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Franklin Pettit misunderstands the architecture of Friendfeed. It's not a BBS. It's a medium for creating whatever social networks or communities suit your taste. No one forced Pettit to interact with those who didn't share his political beliefs. He could have easily chosen to subscribe only to those Friendfeed users who did share his beliefs. What a bizarre complaint.
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how many people on FF even know or used a BBS?
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I simply avoided conversations that got too emotional during this time period. it's just that simple. You don't have to read everything or comment on everything. I guess I'm just good at ignoring content I don't care to see.
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BBS = metaphor for any online unified communal discussion space. Some people don't seem to understand that on FF you are free to create pro-actively whatever discussion spaces you choose, either through subscriptions or rooms. They think there is a "main board" here to which one must passively submit. Wrong model.
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IMHO, FriendFeed has the most civil conversations.
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Mike: I agree. Franklin needs to listen to Rush Limbaugh to see how bad political discourse can be.
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When "conservatives" (usually they aren't really conservatives) complain about the lack of civility on FF, often they are venting frustration about being intellectually overpowered in political discussions. It must be a shock for some to discover that talk radio sets a low standard for informed debate about policy issues. They aren't prepared for real discussion.
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Can we not debate without personal attacks? I have been a strong advocate for FF user independence. I have no problem with healthly discussion and lively fierce debate. I have a thick skin when it comes to leaving emotion out of discussions. Often the heated discussions lead to real insight. However, I am talking abuse that I witnessed. The angry mob under the direction of a few were verbally abusive to the dissenting opinion. Disagreement is natural and healthy. It crossed over and left a bad taste
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@Sean: It is irresponsible and very ignorant to characterize any people group you happen to disagree with. Broad generalizations about conservatives helps no one in the discussion. Where is the common ground? There is common ground to be found American politics.
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Franklin: I discovered that most of the people on FF who characterized themselves as "conservatives" haven't the slightest idea of what conservatism is all about, and were unable to discuss these issues in an informed way. Quite a few of them were religious fundamentalists with a strong affinity for fascism. Sorry -- that's my honest impression. Few of them appear to have read a serious book in their lives. When intellectually challenged, they complain bitterly about the unfairness of it all.
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@Sean: Not sure I totally agree with the characterization but I appreciate the candor and description from which you base your characterization.
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@Robert did you loudly stomp on people who said ignorant hurtful things about McCain or Palin or were those things ok? I didn't vote for either Obama or McCain, but from an outside perspective, I saw a lot of mud being slung by both sides and the Obama supporters were just as evil as the McCain supporters when it came to being disgusting towards the opposing views.
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Commented on the blog. Welcome back Franklin
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Franklin: the main point is that FF users have the power to associate with whomever they choose. The FF architecture and interface is endlessly flexible and customizable.
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I'm so glad I wasn't a part of these discussions I keep hearing about that riled up so many people. I guess I did a good job of avoiding this. I don't get passionate about anything unless I feel strongly about it pushing a positive agenda, and even then I always keep an open mind and respect others views. Anyways...carry on.
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@Sean: On the point of FF being flexible we totally agree. As I said I am against FF etiquette and rules for users. However, that does not mean that we can not practice some decorum in heated discussion. Let's disagree, let's get emotional, but ultimately let's be civil. Those that are "leaders" unofficially or not wield an enormous power. With great power comes great responsibility. LOL
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Franklin: I'm all for as much civility and decorum as possible in political discussions. We agree on that.
About Franklin
I coined this blog "Tech, Life, & Stuff" for lack of a better description. This blog is primarily about my view on tech from South Carolina. I am a South Carolina software developer. More> 